WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:05.948 The International Energy Agency really expects hydrogen demand to grow by 5 to 7 X over the 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:12.519 next 30 years. So we're getting up to like 663 metric tons by 2050 in order to meet our net 00:00:12.528 --> 00:00:19.449 zero targets. Pop quiz, what does 00:00:19.458 --> 00:00:25.958 the future of hydrogen and my shirt have in common? The answer they're both green, 00:00:26.019 --> 00:00:30.250 green hydrogen is going to be central to the way that we get around, the way that we heat 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:35.649 our homes and offices and best of all, it is very sustainable. Honeywell has developed a 00:00:35.658 --> 00:00:40.908 range of solutions for the entire green hydrogen value chain including production, 00:00:40.918 --> 00:00:46.630 compression and transportation. I spoke with Maya Gomez to learn more. Maya. We all know 00:00:46.639 --> 00:00:51.658 that hydrogen is key to a number of industries , but to get to a more sustainable future, we 00:00:51.668 --> 00:00:57.908 really need to understand green hydrogen. But wait a second because I didn't know until we 00:00:57.918 --> 00:01:03.029 started recording this that there are actually many colors of hydrogen. So can you take us 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:08.730 through the hydrogen? Rainbow? Yeah, absolutely. So hydrogen itself is a clean 00:01:08.790 --> 00:01:14.620 burning uh zero carbon fuel source, right? But typically it's produced today from carbon dense 00:01:14.629 --> 00:01:19.730 fuels like natural gas, coal. So that's what we would call gray hydrogen. If it's being 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.933 produced from fossil fuels, it's something that's super cheap, but it's got a high carbon 00:01:23.944 --> 00:01:29.043 intensity um but we can do it at large scale. So the second one, the second main color that's 00:01:29.055 --> 00:01:33.885 talked about is blue hydrogen. So we're taking that same fossil fuel production, but we're 00:01:33.894 --> 00:01:40.213 adding carbon capture technologies onto the back end. And this really enables us to um 00:01:40.224 --> 00:01:45.734 lower the carbon intensity of that hydrogen production with just a little bit of extra cost. 00:01:45.745 --> 00:01:50.579 So it's something that can be done um at scale today. And then what we're talking about here 00:01:50.588 --> 00:01:56.680 is green hydrogen. So uh green hydrogen is produced by water electrolysis uh using 00:01:56.689 --> 00:02:01.418 renewable power. So if we break that down a little bit more water electrolysis is a 00:02:01.430 --> 00:02:07.724 technology or technology category that utilizes electrically, um an electric powered 00:02:07.734 --> 00:02:14.324 electrolyzer to separate water h2o into hydrogen and oxygen. So green 00:02:14.335 --> 00:02:19.004 hydrogen really has the lowest carbon intensity. Um and it's, but it's a technology 00:02:19.014 --> 00:02:24.034 right, that has a higher cost today. Um And really looking to advance and scale up the 00:02:24.044 --> 00:02:28.844 production of it. And we're not just talking about changing the production methods of 00:02:28.854 --> 00:02:32.784 hydrogen. We're talking about the ways in which hydrogen can be used in the different 00:02:32.794 --> 00:02:38.308 industries it can be used in, right. Yeah, absolutely. So the International Energy Agency 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.149 really expects hydrogen demand to grow by 5 to 7 X over the next 30 years. So we're getting up 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:50.649 to like 663 metric tons by 2050 in order to meet our net zero targets. So you have 00:02:50.659 --> 00:02:57.618 existing and in industry uses today. So manufacturing, refining steel, et cetera, 00:02:57.629 --> 00:03:01.979 but we're going to be expanding um the applications in which green hydrogen can be 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:07.879 used in the future to powering your vehicles, powering aircrafts. And then also another 00:03:07.889 --> 00:03:13.520 future uh use cases using hydrogen to heat your building heat your home. Are some of these 00:03:13.949 --> 00:03:19.088 developed or are we talking theoretical things like when I think about getting into my car and 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:23.550 have it powered by hydrogen? That sounds like a totally different world. How far away is that 00:03:23.558 --> 00:03:28.508 world? It does. But there are actually hydrogen powered cars available today. You'll 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:33.240 typically see them maybe like in California. Um I know Toyota has got one, there's a few 00:03:33.250 --> 00:03:38.020 others out there, so they're becoming a lot more real. Uh but they're maybe not as 00:03:38.028 --> 00:03:44.169 mainstream yet, right? My closest hydrogen um um facility if I were to have a hydrogen car is 00:03:44.179 --> 00:03:49.939 like 300 miles away. So it's not a practical application for me today and especially as we 00:03:49.949 --> 00:03:55.439 go into um areas like aircraft, right, that ones may be a little bit further off into the 00:03:55.449 --> 00:04:01.679 future. So definitely opportunities for innovation um and kind of new companies and new 00:04:01.689 --> 00:04:07.139 technology to come forward. But I imagine this is stuff we want to be rooting for because 00:04:07.149 --> 00:04:12.860 getting into a green hydrogen powered car or airplane is a lot better than the kinds of 00:04:12.868 --> 00:04:17.629 fuels that today are powering most of those things. So, what does it take for us to get 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:22.428 there? You know, what's interesting is that it's, you know, we use a lot of, um, battery 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:27.319 storage, right? Lithium batteries for electric cars today. But one of the ways that hydrogen 00:04:27.329 --> 00:04:32.829 is actually going to be used is more for some of that like long distance um or it can be used 00:04:32.838 --> 00:04:37.750 in warehouses where you're utilizing fuel cells um instead of batteries. So it it's 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:42.088 really going to depend on the application where you can utilize the mobility of that fuel. 00:04:42.189 --> 00:04:48.040 So what are the main green hydrogen technologies? Yeah, there are four main 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:52.858 electrolyzer technologies that we talk about for green hydrogen production. So you have 00:04:52.869 --> 00:04:59.608 alkaline proton exchange membrane or PM an ion exchange membrane or a em and then 00:04:59.619 --> 00:05:04.858 solid oxide which we call SOEC. Uh So these electrolyzer technologies, they're all 00:05:04.869 --> 00:05:10.000 comprised of a stack uh where the actual splitting of the water into the hydrogen and 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:15.108 oxygen um occurs. And then you have the balance of pan that has kind of your power 00:05:15.119 --> 00:05:20.644 supply your water supply, purification, compression, all the extra things that make the 00:05:20.653 --> 00:05:25.744 system work for your needs. And these four technologies kind of differentiate themselves 00:05:25.754 --> 00:05:31.384 based off of the electrodes, the electrolyte or the membrane separation, the temperature of 00:05:31.394 --> 00:05:38.309 operation. We really see alkaline and P as the dominant technologies on the market today. Um 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:44.588 alkaline is more commercially mature, it's lower cost but you see PM starting to come into 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:50.629 the market, uh boasting higher efficiencies, lower footprint, um higher pressure 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.738 differential and, and kind of better dynamic response when you're, when you're following 00:05:54.750 --> 00:06:01.644 those renewable energy sources and then A EM and A SOEC are new technology. They're ones 00:06:01.656 --> 00:06:05.454 that have kind of been proven at the lab scale , but they have kind of that future disruptor 00:06:05.466 --> 00:06:11.134 quality. A em can leverage the, the benefits, the technical benefits of PM. But you know, 00:06:11.144 --> 00:06:16.615 take advantage of that cost position of alkaline with lower lower cost materials and 00:06:16.625 --> 00:06:23.584 SOEC operates at very high temperatures. So here we're talking 708 150 °C. 00:06:23.771 --> 00:06:29.742 Um So that enables higher efficiencies if you have heat integration. So that's a technology 00:06:29.752 --> 00:06:35.432 where it becomes more application or project specific Maya whenever entrepreneurs hear about 00:06:35.440 --> 00:06:41.170 new technologies, new resources, they start thinking, are there new opportunities here too? 00:06:41.182 --> 00:06:45.721 And I know that there's a lot of startup activity in the green hydrogen space. Can you 00:06:45.730 --> 00:06:51.699 tell us more about that? Yeah, absolutely. So this is a very kind of new, new nascent market, 00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:55.519 let's say. And so there's tons of opportunities. We're still gonna see who the 00:06:55.528 --> 00:07:00.540 leaders are in this. Um As far as the technology itself, A EM is going to be an 00:07:00.548 --> 00:07:05.250 emerging technology, SOEC is emerging technology. So those are ones where they need 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:09.970 kind of backing and support to bring those technologies to maturity. But even with 00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:14.759 alkaline and PM, they're, we're looking to scale the production of this to really 00:07:14.769 --> 00:07:19.079 implement this at a meaningful level. And so for that, you start seeing a lot of 00:07:19.088 --> 00:07:24.449 announcements around giga factories and building up factories to to that gigawatt level 00:07:24.459 --> 00:07:29.329 so that we can deploy this um at scale and take advantage of a lot of the government 00:07:29.338 --> 00:07:35.579 subsidies that exist today. Maya look into the future, you pick how long we're talking 10, 00:07:35.588 --> 00:07:42.509 2050 100 years where green hydrogen is readily available and is powering a lot of 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:48.579 things. What does that world look like? I mean , what's great about that world is that you're, 00:07:48.588 --> 00:07:52.579 you've brought down the cost so much. So really the big change is that we're going to be 00:07:52.588 --> 00:07:58.369 able to have clean hydrogen at the cost that we do this great hydrogen today, right? That's 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:04.000 really the goal is for this to become viable technology. Um that doesn't need government 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:08.879 subsidies that that can kind of exist on its own merits. Um And that's really what we're 00:08:08.889 --> 00:08:13.415 kind of driving towards is driving down the cost of the electricity, driving down the the 00:08:13.423 --> 00:08:18.954 cost of the electrolyzer unit itself. And then also making sure that we're able to like 00:08:18.963 --> 00:08:24.324 utilize the capacity of that electrolyzer um by by powering it with renewables for a higher 00:08:24.334 --> 00:08:28.934 percentage of the day. All right, Maya, this is a technical question. Your job is to explain 00:08:28.944 --> 00:08:33.474 it to me. Like I understand the question that I'm asking you right now. What is the 00:08:33.484 --> 00:08:39.950 importance of CCM membranes in the green hydrogen production process? Sure. So CCM, 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:44.629 let's start it there. It stands for a catalyst coated membrane. Um and the catalyst coated 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:49.639 membrane or CCM is really at the heart of the electrolyzer cell and drives the performance 00:08:49.649 --> 00:08:55.119 improvement for the technology. So what is it consist? It's really consists of a membrane and 00:08:55.129 --> 00:09:00.729 it's coated with catalyst ink. So you have two electrodes which is one is an AO catalyst and 00:09:00.739 --> 00:09:06.741 one is a cathode catalyst. So think of it like um printing newspaper ink onto a newspaper. So 00:09:06.751 --> 00:09:11.850 a similar process a lot more techie uh but that's visually what you're trying to achieve. 00:09:11.860 --> 00:09:16.730 And the catalyst coated membrane really facilitates that electrochemical reaction. Uh 00:09:16.741 --> 00:09:23.131 So the electrode or the catalyst is splitting that water into oxygen and hydrogen with the 00:09:23.142 --> 00:09:27.910 associated ions, whether it's an H plus or an oh negative. And those cross through the 00:09:27.921 --> 00:09:33.614 membrane, the membrane is also responsible for keeping that hydrogen and oxygen separate um 00:09:33.624 --> 00:09:37.854 which is important for for safety reasons as well as getting that kind of high high purity 00:09:37.864 --> 00:09:44.013 product. So Honeywell has leveraged decades of membranes and catalysis experience to really 00:09:44.023 --> 00:09:50.864 drive a breakthrough membrane for both P and A EM technologies. And this really enables the 00:09:50.874 --> 00:09:56.543 market in kind of two ways. Uh One, you're able to get higher hydrogen production with 00:09:56.553 --> 00:10:02.365 that same electricity input. Um And, and therefore you can kind of lower your stack 00:10:02.475 --> 00:10:07.075 Capex. So that's a great win or the other way you can utilize it is you're getting the same 00:10:07.085 --> 00:10:12.085 hydrogen production, but you need less electricity input to make it happen. And so 00:10:12.096 --> 00:10:19.056 therefore, you're lowering the ongoing Opex um for that technology. So regardless of how 00:10:19.065 --> 00:10:24.075 it's utilized, it's really um enabling performance improvements for the technology and 00:10:24.085 --> 00:10:30.408 economic benefits for our end users. Well, for non science nerds, I think what people just 00:10:30.418 --> 00:10:35.649 heard is very smart. People like you and the folks at Honeywell are on it and bringing us to 00:10:35.658 --> 00:10:40.200 a green hydrogen future Maya. Thank you so much for walking me through it. Thank you.